Great first day
10.12.09 | simon | 
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I’d like to thank everyone today for their donations. It’s been a steady stream of donations rolling in all day. Thanks heaps guys!
We’re over 5% of the way there, which is not bad at all for the first day. There are a number of media opportunities coming up over the next week or so that should spread the campaign to a wider audience. I’ll be sure to outline them here or on Twitter as and when they occur.
Our target is $10,000 for the initial ad run. That works out at approximately $900 per ad-on-a-bus, so we’ve nearly got one ad sorted…let’s go!
173 Responses to “Great first day”
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March 26th, 2010 at 8:27 am
I cant see generalisations in Peters post at all. He is writing about historical facts.
You notice he only mentions mans implementation of religion in the chuch, and not the possibility of god, but yet BC feels the need to call it mindless generalisations.
So we cant say things against the church or the existence of god?
This is a poor argument BC, your previous posts have been slightly better.
Atheist- Someone who denies the existience of God. Often linked to a person who like science reason and logic.
March 26th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
pete knight – nice one. the great thing about catholicism (if you are a catholic) is all gets forgiven. the pope has apologised to the families of those molested children, and no doubt the priests concerned have said hundreds of hail marys and our fathers, so that’s all ok too. you can confess crimes to your priest and he can’t be made to divulge information in a court of law. great system. if you are not catholic, however, you go to jail, no matter how many apologies.
so, br graham-michael, even you might be able to see “the problem you have with us”
March 26th, 2010 at 4:03 pm
Rob – that’s exactly the point I was making – distinguishing the church’s behaviour from Christian theology and the existence of God.
The generalisations I was referring to, was that because people are religious they don’t think or it’s done for them.
Not sure how you gathered the I was suggesting no one can’t criticise the church or argue against the existence of God.
I’ve already stated my critique of the church.
I haven’t told anyone to ‘go to hell’ because they don’t agree with me or the church’s teaching about the existence of God.
March 26th, 2010 at 7:57 pm
“I haven’t told anyone to ‘go to hell”
A typical Christian apologists strategy, twisting the words around. I never suggested that YOU said ‘Go to hell’ to anyone, what I DID say however, is that the church uses fear and intimidation with the threat of everlasting damnation in the fires of hell in order to frighten the weak minded into staying with religion.
Never having been a believer I wouldn’t know, but most people who leave the faith say that the fear of going to hell was the one thing that had them wavering. Many who sit on the fence are worried that their soul will be in torment if they leave the faith, but those who see the light have come to realise that when you lose the faith, you also lose the fear.
No god = no fear, because no heaven means there is no hell.
Know god = know fear, because the threat of damnation is the tool used by clergy to keep the sheeple in line and propping up the church financially, or better known as extortion.
March 27th, 2010 at 6:49 am
BC, I think you are on a hiding to nowhere. It’s very clear this conversation could go on forever – mot necessarily a bad thing – but if PK and Bob want to continually bash the Catholic tradition with his generalizations – most of which have little if any foundation – then what is the point? All this projection doesn’t make for a half decent debate.
” Br Graham-Michael, even you might be able to see “the problem you have with us” ” = not sure what you are meaning by this Bob, but if you think I have a problem with atheists, then I must add that I don’t.
March 27th, 2010 at 10:12 am
Pete, as part of the church, I am supposed to be party to threatening people who lose faith and non-believers, that they’ll end up in hell. So I’m not sure of what words I’m guilty of twisting the meaning. You seemed to have made it very clear on several occasions that that’s exactly what the church does. If there is a difference, it’s so subtle. Unless you’re speaking historically, and I’m free from such accusations.
Brother Graham-Michael, I know I’m on a hiding to nowhere – I’m use to that!. And I knew that reading the preceding posts before I entered the ‘conversation’.
The description of historic Catholicism you and I would agree has some element of truth about it. After all even within the early church in Acts was anything but a smooth ride, let alone dealing with any persecution from without.
Strawman arguments unfortunately are par for the course – from both sides!
Philosophically, it is recognised that science, reason and logic all have their limits in dealing with epistemological, teleological and ontological factors involved in propositions about origins and existence of God.
Science is yet to produce a succinct argument supporting ‘ought’, as it is currently limited to ‘is’ statements.
March 27th, 2010 at 8:49 pm
Fear and intimidation are the main tools of faith, used to this very day, luckily the church isn’t allowed to execute heretics anymore, and the increasing levels of secularism are testament to the changes in how the church is allowed to deal with anything that might contradict the bible.
The current child abuse scandal hitting the Catholic church is the final blow that exposes the church as believing it is above the law, and it shatters the myth that the church and bible are arbiters of morality.
Where was this holy morality when priests beat, and sexually abused children, where was this morality when the current pope tried to cover up the sins if the church, was that a moral act?
A 10 year old boy killed himself in Ireland, why I hear you ask, because the church covered it’s tracks, the boy was labeled a liar and couldn’t live with the knowledge that his abuser was free and allowed, with the support of the church, to continue abusing.
The Catholic church has elevated itself above the law, above reason and morality, it is prepared to sacrifice it’s flock for it’s own survival. Watch the following video:
http://vodpod.com/watch/3195947-the-root-of-all-evil-part-the-virus-of-faith
Whilst I have no doubt that there are some good people who believe, it cannot be overlooked that there are some evil people withing the religious establishment, and it is that establishment which needs to be ended. Believe in your god by all means, but don’t allow mortal men masquerading as the authority of god to rule you, and most importantly me!
You choose to believe in a god, I do not, why should I have to follow your rules, the rules of society are my rules, NOT the rules of an out of date rule book.
March 28th, 2010 at 12:39 am
PK says ‘You choose to believe in a god, I do not, why should I have to follow your rules, the rules of society are my rules, NOT the rules of an out of date rule book.’
Whose rules are you following? My rules, the Bible’s rules, God’s rules, Society’s rules or your own rules?
What rules your life? Your mind or your biology? Both?
IF God created/evolved you, THEN whose rule are we under? Logically God’s.
IF God didn’t create/evolve you, THEN what rule are we under? A purposeless universe, a la Peter Atkins? Is that Logical? Reasonable? Scientific?
Bible says that the Law is there to enlighten our mind as to our lawlessness. The fact that the Jews had the written Law didn’t increase their ability to live rightly, but increased their lawlessness. This is the purpose of all laws – to show us up as lawbreakers. Even without a written law, ‘primitive’ societies have lawing making and breaking, covering the same core moral/societal problems we are confronted with in our ‘modern’ society.
I’ve not denied that the Catholic church has a huge problem on its hands.
Those evil practices are not based on anything God has ordained, but God condemned them in the pagan societies that surrounded Israel in Old Testament times.
March 28th, 2010 at 1:05 am
You provide the proof that your god created me, you or anything else I and I might take you seriously.
Your god might not have ordained the problems of the Catholic church, but he was conspicuously absent when those poor children were being abused by ordained priests.
Morals on laws were in existence a long time before your god was invented, and many thousands of other gods that your god was, in part, based on.
You are showing yourself to be the typical christian apologist, claiming that all the lovely things are gods doing, but the nasty stuff is either our doing, or gods punishment.
So tell me, do you agree with Pat Robertson’s assertion that the Haiti earthquake was gods punishment on the people of Haiti? In the recent earthquakes in Chile, was it divine intervention that saw only churches destroyed?
How about the church in Brazil where the roof fell in on the one day that it had your gods most loyal and obedient servants praying to him, coincidence of intervention?
I follow the rules of the society in which I live, if I move to another country I would expect to have to live by their rules, I certainly wouldn’t live in a country where the only rules are in an old outdated book.
For a society to survive it needs to adapt itself and its rules, which is why the christian faith is in decline, it lives by an old book that cannot match the growing mind of the human race. Humans continue to learn about our planet and the cosmos, things that conflict with your bibble, and the church can no longer threaten great people with heresy, like they did with Galileo.
When he told the world that the earth wasn’t flat, and that the sun didn’t revolve around the earth he was imprisoned, since then there have been so many holes blown in your bibble that it resembles a sieve.
If your bibble is so infallible, why does it condone rape, incest, slavery, blood lust and more? Please don’t insult my intelligence by suggesting that I read it out of context, those are the words of an apologist.
Make all the excuses for the bibble that you wish, you could expand your mind with new and wonderful discoveries, or you could carry on with your mind as closed and un-altering as a 2000 year old book.
March 28th, 2010 at 10:08 am
PK
What sort of proof do you want that God created us/universe? Generally, the cosmos/humanity has evolved during creation, beginning with an instantaneous moment. Scientists have no idea of HOW it happened, only that it is extremely LIKELY to have occurred that way. So, sorry I am also not able to do what all the cosmologists, theoretical physicists and biologists have not yet been able to do.
But, in what they have described so far I find no reason to throw the Bible away.
Remember Bible is a why book not a how book.
The problems in the church being overlooked by God are not an indication of God’s absence. If God actioned his wrath we would be excluded from life right now, as a natural process of decay under sin. We already suffer the consequences of going against the way God has ordered things.
However, Jesus said that he did not come to condemn the cosmos but to free it to life, for at the moment it is struggling for life and is failing. BUT he also said that there will be a time when God will put the cosmos to rights and those who don’t change their minds about justice will naturally continue to suffer the consequences of their lifestyle outside the ‘righted’ cosmos.
When roughly was ‘my god’ invented? Even if you can draw a rough picture of the cultural evolution of humanity and how we expressed religiosity, that would not necessarily include the notion that God is an invention. Would it not be natural, having lost any original relationship with a creator God, that mankind would, from a residual memory of God, develop many religions involving a god or gods or a system of justice with notions or right and wrong? Within that memory would be expressed the notion of a god in control (or personal control) to some extent over the natural order of things?
The evil that is in the world is derived from a persist rebellion on the part of mankind introduced by the Satan (the original rebel), not something God suddenly, out of the blue, decided was unsavoury.
What do you think a typical Christian apologist would do? The rain falls on the just and the unjust, and the weeds grow alongside the wheat, but not forever.
Pat Robertson says what he likes. He, like many others, has a literal view of the Bible from beginning to end. Who knows what the non-natural ‘purpose’ of the earthquake is. It probably man turn some minds toward life’s essential matters, others will curse God for it and help out or hinder. It’s their choice. At the moment all suffer, and many Christians and others share in the suffering to bring relief.
Not sure where you got the idea that only Churches were destroyed. The published TV footage from Chile showed thousands of buildings of all types destroyed. In many quakes it is the churches the remain, as they are larger, stronger buildings.
The church in Brazil probably lost its roof due to age and bad construction. Why it happened, when it happened, who knows? No one has the inside track of what God is up to. That’s part of faith – not all – just part. Suffering is part of life. We were never promised a rose garden.
What you do in following society’s rules is supported in the Bible. The rules in different countries at different times in history are all based of an innate sense of fairness that is universal. Somehow this fairness is compromised, hence the need for a rule of justice. Where does that sense of fairness come from? Where does justice derive?
Even though there is no basis or proof from science that they are right, we still follow societal conventions and the rule of law (more or less!). Theorising that they are derived from an evolutionary process is a stretch, even if you conclude they seem to be helpful in creating a society less fraught with widespread lawlessness, enabling us to progress.
Interestingly, when there is civil unrest following human or natural disaster, we see how unnatural it is for humanity to abide by law. Haiti is but one example of the breakdown of law when the structure and mechanisms of a lawful society disappear. This indicates there is the need for prescriptive lawmaking not derived from a natural order such as described by science through biology.
I make no claims about who is ignorant about anything. But I’m not as ignorant of new and wonderful discoveries as you make out. For those who are interested in the universe (from my grandfather knee!) we have been challenged as much as any scientist with presentations of quantum physics, cosmology and biology at any level. There are plenty of scientists who are Christian who are at the cutting edge of the theoretical sciences, and they don’t live double lives either. One does not exclude the other no matter what some Christians and Atheists may say. Hopefully it is a matter of expanding all our minds on all levels.
Just out of interest, what studies in philosophy, theology or science have you undertaken? Are you studying at Uni? Involved in the Humanist and Rationalist Society?
March 29th, 2010 at 6:22 am
Oh dear, oh, dear, oh dear!
Yet more apologetic’s and excuses for your religion.
Now here is a guy who saw through Catholicism:
http://richarddawkins.net/convertsCorner#964
A Mexican no less, one of the Catholic churches greatest strongholds.
What we find is that as education reaches the masses they are given the tools to expose religion for the controlling regime that it is.
I’m a lifelong atheist, I haven’t undertaken any studies, I am a student of life, well educated and able to apply rational thought processes to worldly issues. Are you trying to tell me that your higher education trumps my, less formal, education?
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out that the planet is older that the bible would suggest, AND the hundreds of years of scientific research suggests otherwise. Galileo debunked much of the bible, and as we learn more about our surrounding it becomes obvious to all but a few superstitious simpletons that the bible is nothing more than a fairy story.
Why is your bible right, and other religious tome less right, why aren’t you a Buddhist, or a Hindu: I’ll tell you why, it is an accident of your birth, if you’d been born anywhere else you would have been indoctrinated into the religion of the locale.
If your god existed there would be less suffering in the world, and the recent suffering in Haiti is a clear example of an uncaring god, or a non existent god, I’ll stick with the latter!
March 29th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
Careful, PK, your eye rolling may cause you to go blind! Try and curb your enthusiasm for continuing your tirades against the Catholic Church. For someone who emphatically believes only in science, logic and reason, your occasional overwrought dogmatic language reveals little of that belief.
I’m not particularly concerned as to what education you’ve had, it was just of general interest. Sometimes education can get in the way, when it becomes a ego trip. But my guess is, you follow your own choice of role models and teachers as do I.
We both need to address the essential issues with careful consideration, not only to content but also the way we express our views. That’s what I’m attempting to speak to, as do many Christians and others.
When the established religious institutions run aground, together with faith in priests or doctrine or the church establishments, people know that life and their relationship with God is bigger than those things.
It’s a stretch in the extreme to claim that Galileo debunked MUCH of the Bible, as the Bible doesn’t say much, if anything, about the physical arrangement of our solar system. At least you didn’t expound the falacy that the Bible also teaches that the earth is flat!
Galileo, even after being put under house arrest by the Church authorities, continued both in his faith and his scientific work. Greek cosmology is what the Catholic Church adopted, and it was that, that Galileo debunked. Neither cosmology is established by anything in the Bible, even though church doctrine was bent to fit the Greek. Eventually, his work was published by another Christian, a Protestant pacifist, no less. There was substantial support for Galileo’s ideas within the Catholic Church, in the form of Pope Urban VIII, but as in all political institutions, changing allegiances and political pressure at the head dictated the stance the church subsequently took against Galileo’s ideas. The ban was lifted in 1718 and in 1735 Galileo’s body was reburied within the Basilica of Santa Croce and a monument errected. By 1820, his works could be published without religious critique. The back story to most historic events are generally far more interesting and enlightning, than any presentation of a caricature.
I am well aware there are thousands of people who have turned away from the faith for all sorts of reasons. And just as many have turned to faith in God. But that’s not a substantial issue.
Since all religions don’t say the same things about the nature of the universe and the human condition, it is not hard to come to the position that all or none could be correct. As I said before, in the balance of evidence and reason, as in court procedings, one can make an informed judgment. It remains a personal decision though. It is an open judgement of faith, challenged daily to change with deepening understanding, by taking all things into account.
You say there should be less suffering in the world, than there is at present, if God existed. How do you know that? Maybe, there would be a lot more suffering, if God didn’t act or didn’t exist? We have no way way of knowing that. But what the Bible and Jesus claim, is that God has put things into place that will, in the age to come, put all to rights. Obviously, science makes no such claim and indeed can not, even though political and religious movements have risen and fallen claiming so.
You must admit your judgement is biased and is naturally coloured by your understanding of the nature of things. No doubt that bias is as strong as my own, since I was born into a Christian family. However, education was never regarded as anti-church, anti-religious or anti-Christian or whatever you want to call it. My brother is an active Christian with a Phd, teaches at UNSW, Sydney, and, as far as I know, none of his academic colleagues regard him as a ‘superstitious simpleton’. So where on earth do you get your ideas about such things? Do you live in a particular community in the Appalachians where you have observed these things first hand?
Some societies (US/UK?) have significant olde world sections of society with strict social demarcations of political outlook and control. If you live in such, I can understand your frustration, but here in New Zealand, we are not so constrained.
By the way, I have no mandate to get you to change your mind. Obviously, that’s up to you. We all stand or fall according to each and every call we make in life.
Afterall, the unexamined life is not worth living.
March 29th, 2010 at 3:33 pm
The Catholic Church is a blood-soaked evil organisation which practices all kinds of rituals mentioned nowhere in the bible, including ritual cannibalism. It promotes idolitry through it’s veneration of Mary and ‘the saints’ – something also outlawed in the bible. The wholesale sexual assault on children by the Catholic clergy is sickening enough, but when you see the endless wars & crusades, the genocide, 1900 years of persecution of Jews, indoctrination of children through religious schooling, the attacks on science, the over-population and AID’s promoted through a stone-age adherence to prohibiting birth control…..why would anyone belong to this abhorrent organisation??
March 29th, 2010 at 4:55 pm
What saddens me is the PK clearly hasn’t read or tried to reason with anything I or BC has shared. As for Aaron’s contribution – it is so off beam re the reality of the Church – Catholic or otherwise – that it doesn’t require further comment.
By all means have your say, but please, please get your facts straight. And to admit to not having studied religion and then make such outlandish comments beggers belief, ( if you’ll pardon the pun ). Charity prevents me saying any more.
KInd regards,
G-M
March 29th, 2010 at 5:23 pm
Aaron: I respectfully yawn in your general direction.
March 29th, 2010 at 6:58 pm
Yes I do read your posts, but all I see is excuses and apologies for your gods inability to prevent suffering, of course I know why your god doesn’t prevent suffering of little children, because he is about as able to do so as Superman, another imaginary saviour.
As for Galileo, he was accused of heresy and imprisoned for saying that the earth revolves around the sun, in direct conflict with the bibble. As mans ability to see beyond the planet expands, the bible shrinks as more and more of it’s content is found to be little more than mans understanding of the planet 2000 years ago.
Science isn’t against the bible, or indeed religion, but mans hunger for knowledge has exposed the the bible for what it is, but still the Catholic church tries to hold onto the belief that the bible is infallible. In it’s dark and sinister history the Catholic church has murderer or imprisoned anyone that dare to contradict the bible.
Because of the Catholic churches grip on Europe, several breakaway sects sprang into existence, most notably, the Lutherans, and the Pilgrim fathers fled Europe to escape persecution by the Mafia like Catholic church.
There was a time when, to disagree with the Dons, errr sorry I mean Cardinals, meant torture and death. The Catholic church is now being exposed for what it is, a controlling, manipulative, criminal organisation that is running more rackets than the Mafia could ever dream about.
*Awaits further excuses and apologetic’s from the dynamic duo*
March 29th, 2010 at 7:17 pm
Well put Pete.
in reply, I expect the usual “what would it take you to believe?”,
“the church isnt as bad as all that even though when theirs priests are caught with their pants down their first instinct is to cover up the scandal and damn the young victims to silence: “, ” the church and god are different”,”all you post is rumours and innuendo” arguments to surface.
It amazes me, people come to a site with a URL of http://www.nogod.org.nz…. and a motto of “there probably is no god” and they get upset when we /cyberguy/phil question the christian churches which propogate what we see as a series of lies like “there is a god”.
What evidence would it take for Br Graeme ,BC and Benji to admit there probably is no god?
And why are they fixated on the bible and jesus so much?
There are so many other gods to defend as well.
March 30th, 2010 at 7:04 am
the belief that the bible is infallible = we do not believe that – another common error.
the Lutherans, and the Pilgrim fathers fled Europe to escape persecution = another common error. I’m afraid your knowledge of history is so askew.
Rob – with respect, if you cannot get a person’s name right, then what are you reading. ‘Fixated’ is an interesting word – but surely any Christian would be interested in the Bible and Jesus ?
And no, I don’t get upset – merely defending my corner of the debate and trying to correct an increasingly large number of misconceptions about Christianity and the Church. Like you cause, it’s freedom of speech. Not in one solitary sentence have I criticized Atheism.
It is your right to believe or not believe as you will, but please – as I said before – get the facts right before slagging off other people.
March 30th, 2010 at 7:41 am
Br Graham-Michael, my apologies for getting your name wrong.
March 30th, 2010 at 9:29 am
I think we do have our facts right about the Catholic Church. You can make any excuses you like about us not understanding papal infallibility and the like – nevertheless, the history of the Catholic Church is a catalogue of murder and destruction. Cardinal Rat-singe-r, this evil man with sunken eyes….he looks so much like the Emporer out of the Star Wars movies. He’s well in tune with the dark side of the force. It’s great that victims groups are demanding he be held to account for his cover-up of the rampant sexual abuse of innocent children by the Catholic clergy. When I hear that people are turning away from the Church in droves in Ireland and Europe, it makes me glad to hear it. Finally the Church’s chickens are coming home to roost. Now if there was just some way of opening the eyes of the people of South America and Africa….if there was some way to make them see that adherence to the Church will only result in further over-population and the continued spread of AID’s.
March 30th, 2010 at 9:46 am
@Br G-M
You say we, but you obviously don’t speak for all christians, take Kent Hovind for instance; At 1:31 in this video he clearly states that he believes the bible to be infallible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIeLRD1L9yY
Yes the pilgrim fathers fled Europe to escape persecution, the persecution of the Catholic church which controlled Europe at that time, with it’s inquisitions, using methods that the Mafia would be proud of.
Fact; The Catholic church has covered up wrong doing among its own for hundreds of years.
Fact; Pope Benedict is complicit in the cover up of child molesting priests, and has been for decades.
Question; What do YOU believe should happen to these men who molested children, and those who conspired to aid criminals evade justice.
Despite you apologetic denials, you cannot get away from the fact that fear and intimidation is the main tool used to control the sheeple. The following video is the best example of scaring children into staying with the church, and is little more than child abuse:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSwZJ55g80Q&feature=related
Fact; The current pope tells outrageous lies about condoms causing aids, when the truth is quite the opposite.
You may be a moderate christian, but denying that underhand methods are used is disingenuous. The lies and cheating are doing more damage to religion than any atheist bus campaign could ever do.
What this campaign is doing is showing that we are not alone, and many people are now coming out of the closet, in all but the craziest of bible belt areas, where some still fear telling their nearest and dearest that they don’t believe.
March 30th, 2010 at 10:19 am
Another victory for freedom over tyranny!!!
=======================
As long as Ireland has had pubs, Good Friday has been off-limits as a “dry” holy day – until now.
A Limerick judge has ruled that the city’s 110 pubs can open on April 2 2010 because the city is hosting a major Irish rugby match attracting tens of thousands of visitors.
This will be the first time in the history of the Republic of Ireland that pubs anywhere in the country will open on Good Friday.
Such a judgment would have been unthinkable in the Ireland of old, where the Catholic Church enjoyed unquestioned authority from the public and deference from the government. Commentators were quick to suggest that Thursday’s judgment represented a watershed in the shifting relations between church and state in this rapidly secularising land.
“This could be the beginning of the end of Good Friday, because now legislation will have to be changed,” said a jubilant David Hickey, one of the Limerick pub owners who successfully sued the state for the right to do business like any other Friday.
Several Franciscan friars who live in an impoverished housing project beside Limerick’s rugby stadium said they might pray, protest and erect the Stations of the Cross – church artworks that illustrate the stages of Christ’s crucifixion on Good Friday and resurrection on Easter – outside the gates as 26,000 rugby fans arrive.
March 30th, 2010 at 10:38 am
Aaron. Well, I didn’t expect such insults on what I thought to be a reasonable and reasoned site. Thank you for your comments, but insulting my Father in God only proves the shallowness of your claims.
Good bye.
March 30th, 2010 at 11:20 am
It’s all very well to be reasonable and reasoned but I am sick and tired of religion retarding human progress. It’s got it’s choking hands wrapped round the throat of humanity & we have christians essentially stopping the bus campaign through their protests, & handing out copies of Darwin’s book with their own foreword at Dawkin’s lecture….they are vocal and militant and infected with religious mania. I think religion gets away with it because they rely on atheists, agnostics, humanists and non-believers to be “reasonable and reasoned” rather than outraged. I, personally, having studied history and being aware of the 1900 years of Jewish persecution by Christian’s that is integrally linked to the holocaust, am outraged.
March 30th, 2010 at 12:09 pm
I have been following these posts with interest. Must agree wholeheartedly with Pete Knight’s posts all the way. You make a lot of sense Pete, and it’s a joy to read you clear and thoughtful posts after trawling through the fundies.
And I hope the pubs over here take note of what the ones in Ireland are up to Friday too!
March 31st, 2010 at 9:06 pm
Aaron for dictator!
Your brief summary of the World History of Christianity would be hilariously myopic if it weren’t for the fact it deals with such a serious topic.
Tragically, it’s just another simple docudrama that would not gain the time of day by any historian to comment on.
Why don’t you commission a graphic novelist to bring some sophistication to your plot – it could produce a bestseller old boy.
Thought of going online?
What about T-shirts? Badges? Flags? Maybe a symbol?
April 15th, 2010 at 8:35 pm
As a theist of the Christian variety, I think your bus campaign is good fun. After all, the ad itself offers nothing substantial or meaningful for anyone. Most people, religious or otherwise, pursue happiness anyway. It’s two assertions: the improbability of God’s existence and that religious belief necessarily causes anxiety (implied) are not at all obviously true, but if one believes that they are true, how then can they, from an atheists POV, be more than trivially true anyway?
April 22nd, 2010 at 10:51 am
hey leios – i agree, the bus campaign is good fun, and probably shouldn’t be taken any more seriously than that. i made the comment on march 21st at 6:38 pm that you either believe or you don’t and any arguments or conversations on the topic are pointless. reading the postings since have proven my point i think.
to all posters – this web site was active up til late december last year, then nothing until i posted a comment inspired by the close up programme which featured richard dawkins no god comments. where have you all been for 3 months?
h.g. wells – humour and/or sarcasm is always difficult to judge when the speaker is an unknown. sorry, but i can’t tell whether or not you are serious or taking the piss.
erin and aaron – i am a new zealander of european descent but i am not a believer. i don’t believe in christmas or all that goes with easter. so what right has anyone, any religion , or any government have to stop any retailer from trading on xmas day, good friday, or easter sunday. queenstown can trade because it is a “tourist destination.” and wanaka and rotorua aren’t?? paihia is too if the number of cruise ships that visit is any indication. non-believers are being dictated to by believers – is that democratic?
April 22nd, 2010 at 9:16 pm
Hi Bob. I just checked your March comment that you referenced. I disagree that arguments and conversations about religion are pointless unless one has already made up his mind a priori that there are no issues to be discussed. Dawkins thinks that it’s worth making a case against religion, hence his books and buses.
Your comments about the Bible are quite mistaken. The New Testament documents were written by eyewitnesses or by those who researched as contemporaries of the eyewitnesses (as did Luke). The evidences are very well documented. The kind of criticism you offer is pre-modern.
April 22nd, 2010 at 9:26 pm
Bob, I think them thar believers who make’m laws re trading hours are but unbelievers. Aye, ’tis a strange world we does tread upon. Take a poll of our dear parliamentarians and we be none the wiser, do you think?