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	<title>Comments on: Progress Update</title>
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		<title>By: Daniel Schealler</title>
		<link>http://www.nogod.org.nz/2010/02/progress-update/comment-page-1/#comment-1541</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Schealler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:25:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nogod.org.nz/?p=147#comment-1541</guid>
		<description>@Richard Goodwin

On top of what Stephen has said - I&#039;m pretty sure that if God was shown to exist, my very first reaction would be to blush for a while, because that&#039;s how my traitorous body reacts whenever I&#039;m proven wrong about something.

After this, I&#039;d pretty much carry along. Business as usual. The existence of God would have some profound effects on my ontology - but as for my daily grind? Not so much.

So I struggle a bit with the theological proposition that God hides his existence to preserve our autonomy. I don&#039;t think it&#039;s necessary. It&#039;s just more of the same tired old &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.google.co.nz/search?sourceid=chrome&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;q=petitio+principii&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;petitio principii&lt;/a&gt; rubbish that theologians have been churning out since the birth of their profession.

Step 1: Assert the existence of God (P1)

Step 2: Find something that at some level contradicts (or seems to contradict) the existence of God (P2)

Step 3: Use logical-sounding rhetoric to connect P1 to P2 in a way that seems superficially plausible (P3 - Pn)

Step 4: Conclude P2

Step 5: Deflect or dismiss any accusations of petitio principii with your fallacy of choice:

* Ad Hominem: You&#039;re an arrogant, closed-minded atheist, and the Bible said that atheists are fools, so I don&#039;t have to listen to you.

* Red Herring: Yes, but you haven&#039;t considered that all the charitable works that are done by religious people. You don&#039;t want them to stop, do you? Wanting them to stop is clearly wrong, and since I&#039;m wanting them to keep going, I must be right.

* Fallacious Argument from Authority: You don&#039;t have training as a theologian, so you obviously can&#039;t be expected to understand the refined nuance of my argument - so I don&#039;t have to listen to you.

* Or whatever suits your fancy.

Step 6: Publish and get your position adopted and repeated by believers that don&#039;t know how to recognize &#039;begging the question&#039; or why they should care if they could. Encourage them to use your work as an example of why P2 &#039;actually &lt;em&gt;proves&lt;/em&gt; the existence of God, contrary to what mean-spirited, angry, closed-minded atheists say!&#039;

Step 7: Keep a straight face as whilst greasing up to Universities and religious organizations to try and get tenure.

Step 8: Repeat Steps 1 to 5 until retirement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Richard Goodwin</p>
<p>On top of what Stephen has said &#8211; I&#8217;m pretty sure that if God was shown to exist, my very first reaction would be to blush for a while, because that&#8217;s how my traitorous body reacts whenever I&#8217;m proven wrong about something.</p>
<p>After this, I&#8217;d pretty much carry along. Business as usual. The existence of God would have some profound effects on my ontology &#8211; but as for my daily grind? Not so much.</p>
<p>So I struggle a bit with the theological proposition that God hides his existence to preserve our autonomy. I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s necessary. It&#8217;s just more of the same tired old <a href="http://www.google.co.nz/search?sourceid=chrome&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;q=petitio+principii" rel="nofollow">petitio principii</a> rubbish that theologians have been churning out since the birth of their profession.</p>
<p>Step 1: Assert the existence of God (P1)</p>
<p>Step 2: Find something that at some level contradicts (or seems to contradict) the existence of God (P2)</p>
<p>Step 3: Use logical-sounding rhetoric to connect P1 to P2 in a way that seems superficially plausible (P3 &#8211; Pn)</p>
<p>Step 4: Conclude P2</p>
<p>Step 5: Deflect or dismiss any accusations of petitio principii with your fallacy of choice:</p>
<p>* Ad Hominem: You&#8217;re an arrogant, closed-minded atheist, and the Bible said that atheists are fools, so I don&#8217;t have to listen to you.</p>
<p>* Red Herring: Yes, but you haven&#8217;t considered that all the charitable works that are done by religious people. You don&#8217;t want them to stop, do you? Wanting them to stop is clearly wrong, and since I&#8217;m wanting them to keep going, I must be right.</p>
<p>* Fallacious Argument from Authority: You don&#8217;t have training as a theologian, so you obviously can&#8217;t be expected to understand the refined nuance of my argument &#8211; so I don&#8217;t have to listen to you.</p>
<p>* Or whatever suits your fancy.</p>
<p>Step 6: Publish and get your position adopted and repeated by believers that don&#8217;t know how to recognize &#8216;begging the question&#8217; or why they should care if they could. Encourage them to use your work as an example of why P2 &#8216;actually <em>proves</em> the existence of God, contrary to what mean-spirited, angry, closed-minded atheists say!&#8217;</p>
<p>Step 7: Keep a straight face as whilst greasing up to Universities and religious organizations to try and get tenure.</p>
<p>Step 8: Repeat Steps 1 to 5 until retirement.</p>
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		<title>By: stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.nogod.org.nz/2010/02/progress-update/comment-page-1/#comment-1540</link>
		<dc:creator>stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 04:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nogod.org.nz/?p=147#comment-1540</guid>
		<description>&quot;probably&quot; is the joke man. There probably is no tea pot in orbit around mars. There probably is no giant turtle roaming the universe. There probably is  no weirdo in the sky watching/threatening/curing cancer but not restoring wasted limbs.  38 years spent sucking up to some figment of insecure man&#039;s imagination. I could almost say that&#039;s probably a waste.  But I won&#039;t.  It definitely is!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;probably&#8221; is the joke man. There probably is no tea pot in orbit around mars. There probably is no giant turtle roaming the universe. There probably is  no weirdo in the sky watching/threatening/curing cancer but not restoring wasted limbs.  38 years spent sucking up to some figment of insecure man&#8217;s imagination. I could almost say that&#8217;s probably a waste.  But I won&#8217;t.  It definitely is!</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Goodwin</title>
		<link>http://www.nogod.org.nz/2010/02/progress-update/comment-page-1/#comment-538</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Goodwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 08:40:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nogod.org.nz/?p=147#comment-538</guid>
		<description>Sorry to hear that the bus company declined to display your adverts. I am a Christian and think your adverts do heaps to encourage intelligent. I for one don&#039;t want to believe a lie whether it be regarding God&#039;s existance or otherwise. I must say that the fact that the statement includes the word &quot;probably&quot; is somewaht ironic and places your supporters in the camp of  agnosticism and shows up atheism for the irrational, bigoted, philosophy that it is. Keep up the good work, you are doing the Lord s favour!

One other thing, some of you may wonder why God doesn&#039;t make himself more visible. If he were to do so, we would have no alternative but to believe and would thereby be deprived of the very thing that makes us fullyy human, - our freedom and autonomy. In my view, if you want to find evidence to support God&#039;s existance, you will find sufficient to convince you of the truth of your position. If you chose not to believe, you will find evidence which seems to  support your position. As for me and my house, we choose to believe in and serve the Lord. Have been doing so for 38 year and it is the best decision I ever made. I still have doubts, but hey, that goes with the territory, and to be honest, I don&#039;t have enough faith to be an agnostic little alone and athiest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to hear that the bus company declined to display your adverts. I am a Christian and think your adverts do heaps to encourage intelligent. I for one don&#8217;t want to believe a lie whether it be regarding God&#8217;s existance or otherwise. I must say that the fact that the statement includes the word &#8220;probably&#8221; is somewaht ironic and places your supporters in the camp of  agnosticism and shows up atheism for the irrational, bigoted, philosophy that it is. Keep up the good work, you are doing the Lord s favour!</p>
<p>One other thing, some of you may wonder why God doesn&#8217;t make himself more visible. If he were to do so, we would have no alternative but to believe and would thereby be deprived of the very thing that makes us fullyy human, &#8211; our freedom and autonomy. In my view, if you want to find evidence to support God&#8217;s existance, you will find sufficient to convince you of the truth of your position. If you chose not to believe, you will find evidence which seems to  support your position. As for me and my house, we choose to believe in and serve the Lord. Have been doing so for 38 year and it is the best decision I ever made. I still have doubts, but hey, that goes with the territory, and to be honest, I don&#8217;t have enough faith to be an agnostic little alone and athiest.</p>
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		<title>By: Wendy Stewart</title>
		<link>http://www.nogod.org.nz/2010/02/progress-update/comment-page-1/#comment-537</link>
		<dc:creator>Wendy Stewart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 07:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nogod.org.nz/?p=147#comment-537</guid>
		<description>Hi, as a firm believer in God I am really sorry that you have been stopped. Free speech is only fair, this is not hate speech, and it opens up a dialogue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, as a firm believer in God I am really sorry that you have been stopped. Free speech is only fair, this is not hate speech, and it opens up a dialogue.</p>
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		<title>By: Fraser</title>
		<link>http://www.nogod.org.nz/2010/02/progress-update/comment-page-1/#comment-479</link>
		<dc:creator>Fraser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:40:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nogod.org.nz/?p=147#comment-479</guid>
		<description>Wouldn&#039;t that be a lark: if this entire thing was a scam run by a christian. I would laugh, then I&#039;d cry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wouldn&#8217;t that be a lark: if this entire thing was a scam run by a christian. I would laugh, then I&#8217;d cry.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Schealler</title>
		<link>http://www.nogod.org.nz/2010/02/progress-update/comment-page-1/#comment-478</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Schealler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 23:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nogod.org.nz/?p=147#comment-478</guid>
		<description>Still eagerly looking forward to this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Still eagerly looking forward to this.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://www.nogod.org.nz/2010/02/progress-update/comment-page-1/#comment-477</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:44:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nogod.org.nz/?p=147#comment-477</guid>
		<description>When do you expect the ads to begin appearing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When do you expect the ads to begin appearing?</p>
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